Being Fearless When Starting Over, Overcoming Burnout, and Finding Joy in Creativity with Hannah Robinson
About the episode:
I am so excited to share this candid conversation with you all! I’m joined by my longtime friend and fellow designer, Hannah Robinson, an artist and creative who has gone through various transitions in her business seeking the joy of creativity. We discuss Hannah's journey from starting a design business in 2016, experiencing success, starting a new business, experiencing burnout during the pandemic and exploring new creative outlets. Hannah shares her experiences with the impact of the pandemic on her business and her decision to transition away from popular creative tools. Throughout the conversation, Hannah emphasizes the importance of embracing change, trying new things, and trusting oneself in the entrepreneurial journey. She offers advice for dealing with burnout, emphasizing the importance of forgiveness and grace. Hannah also suggests finding something else to fuel passion and creativity, such as engaging in physical activities or pursuing hobbies where you can use your hands. Hannah discusses her new venture and invites listeners to join her on her creative journey. I hope you find so much encouragement and permission to do business your own way and find what works for you. Let’s go to the show!
Takeaways:
RuthAnn and Hannah reminisce about how we met and have kept our friendship over the last 7 years
Hannah shares the twists and turns that her businesses have taken and is honest about struggles along the way
Burnout is a common experience for entrepreneurs, and it's important to prioritize self-care and give yourself time to recover
Hannah honestly shares how comparison can be detrimental to your creativity and business
Trusting yourself and being willing to learn and grow are key to navigating the entrepreneurial journey
Hannah shares how her personality played a role in how she’s navigated change and it’s ok to notice that you’re different and do things differently
Hannah's new venture involves bookbinding and stationery and she invites listeners to join her on her creative journey
Episode resources:
Laura Jade - Editorial Photographer
IG: @wisteriaworks
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RuthAnn
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Rebrand with RuthAnn I am so excited to have one of my best and oldest online friends with us today. This is Hannah Robinson. She is an artist and creative residing in Colorado. Her pursuits began in graphic design, but soon morphed into many different outlets, which is so true. And she is now currently in the beginning stages of running a stationary business.
Hannah
Yeah.
RuthAnn
Hannah, I'm so excited that you're here. And just to have a candid conversation about evolving your business, pivoting over time, changing directions. I feel like this podcast is about rebranding, but it's also about like how you can change your business over time in a way that's super aligned to you so you feel like you are in the right place at the right time and giving your best energy to that. So welcome.
Hannah
Thank you. I'm really happy you invited me. And it's fun. I'm excited.
RuthAnn
Yes!
RuthAnn
Yes, and we have, I was just asking Hannah, like how long we've known each other, and it has been since 2016, the very beginning of both of us getting into the online space. We both joined a course called Freelance Academy, and we were in this course together, and that's how we met. So it's been literally since the very beginning of my business and your business, back when we were, yes, oh my goodness.
Hannah
Shout out to Lauren. Sorry. Yeah, if she's listening, shout out.
RuthAnn
I credit her to so much of just inspiring me in my business and how she ran her business. She's no longer online, I don't think, but yes, love her. I'm so excited that we met during that time. Over the years, we have continued our friendship pretty consistently throughout. We've always had calls like it either it was like monthly or like every other month I just feel like we've been very consistent checking in with each other how things are going And I think it's so important to have that friendship when you are in an online business because it can be so lonely and isolating And so if you don't have a friend online that you feel like you can connect with I really encourage you To find someone and yeah, you might meet them in a course or in a group or something But yeah, so Hannah tell us
Where like, okay, so how you began was we were in the Freelance Academy. And so tell me about your business back then and how things started for you.
Hannah
Ha ha ha!
Sure. So I've always been creative. I tell that to everybody. They're like, Oh, how did you start? I was just like, that was just me. Like in all school, it was like the art classes. Those were my favorite. Don't throw me in a math or history class. It's just tragic. But I was always creative. And so when I started going to college, I was like, well, I want to do something that is creative because that's probably what I'll be good at. And in our generation at that time, technology and websites and all of that was becoming really big and it was taking over.
I am in that generation. But anyway, so I realized that I could combine my artistic talents with technology and I ended up choosing graphic design. I thought that would be my best bet. So I did go to college for that. I did do the corporate kind of thing. I worked for a variety of different companies. And at the end of the day, corporate life was just not for me because it ended up kind of suffocating my creativity. And I wanted a more personal approach. I wanted to be with someone to help them and guide them through the design, not necessarily just give them something and say, hey, here, go do something with this flyer or this logo or whatever. And there is a satisfaction to being able to talk with someone and work with them and then see them with the finished product and see that joy and that excitement that comes with it. So, but yeah, so in 2016, I was current, I was actually working for a hair company. They did like hair products and stuff like that. So it's not that I didn't have a creative outlet or something fun to do. I wasn't doing like, you know, medical flyers, which I had done. So it wasn't that I wasn't in a creative environment. It's just, like I said, I wanted that connection with people and I wanted to do a bit more with my business, which I'm sure a lot of people listening to this understand. Um, so yeah, so I quit. My supervisor was very sad about that, but I quit and then I started my own company and I did not know exactly what I was going to do, but I had been kind of getting freelance gigs up till then, which kind of dealt with branding and websites. And that's kind of just the direction I went. And so I started teaching myself more about branding and the depths of branding. And, um, what all that meant and then yeah and so then I took that course too because I had no idea what I was doing. I was scared to death to be frank. I was like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm scared of the IRS. I'm scared of failing. I mean honestly the IRS was like the biggest scare for me but um taxes and stuff like I said I'm creative everything else is like torture but anyway honest moments.
But yeah, no, I was very scared. I didn't know what I was doing. And so that's when I kind of found that course, which, you know, was a godsend, because I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, but here, this course might help me. And like you were saying before, community is just, it's priceless because it is scary being on your own. It is scary going into something that you don't know what to do. And so finding someone who is just as equally confused as you and probably as equally as nervous.
And it's very reassuring. It makes us feel like, okay, we're all human here. We've all got this. We can all struggle together and get through this. But yeah, so, and then my business just went in that direction. I did branding for small companies. I did websites for them as well. And I've had the opportunity to work with so many creatives from around the globe. I thought it was so cool. It was like, I worked with people who were from, I want, Wait, I always confuse it.
Dang, I want to say Barbados, but I don't think that's right. It might be, but I always confuse it with like the other island. And I'm like, wait, is that is that right? But anyway, or the UK or like, you know, just all from all around. And I'm like, this is so cool. Like I would have never gotten to work with them necessarily if I'd stay doing what I was doing in corporate. So, yeah, that's I think a rambling version.
RuthAnn
Well that might be right.
RuthAnn
You did start, did you start out as Hannah Robinson Designs? Okay, and I feel like you had so much success. And back to what you were saying about commiserating, the fact that both of us didn't know what we were doing on the business-ide, marketing side. We were just creative and we really wanted to help people. And like you said, that partnership, we wanted to be with people and not just give them something, but really partner with them. And so we definitely shared that in common. And we also shared the fact that we're not natural.
Hannah
Yeah, yeah.
Hahaha
RuthAnn
Salespeople were not like marketers, were creatives. And so I love that you share that. And so I feel like you kind of, you really succeeded, I think, in the beginning. You had like a lot of success. And I remember seeing that and being like, wow, like she's, I mean, I've always looked up to you creatively for sure. You are an incredible designer. I feel like.
Hannah
Yeah. Thank you.
RuthAnn
Creativity just comes so naturally to you in so many different mediums, but especially with design I feel like you are incredibly talented and you did blow up pretty soon I thought well definitely compared to me because it took me forever, but like I think it was Exciting to watch but tell me about that like how did that go for you on the inside?
Hannah
Oh man, I still remember my first clients. Like, I remember who they were, I remember the experience, I remember the struggles and the frustrations. So it's very easy to say, oh yes, I was successful, but oh my goodness, not easily. And at that time, Instagram was much different than it is now. And back then, it was more of an organic, it was more organic. You had to show up and you had to be there.
And, you know, I had just started and I felt the passions. I was excited. I was also desperate because you're like, I'm just starting this out and I don't wanna fail. But yeah, Instagram was very different. And so if you showed up, you actually did get more traction than, you know, I mean, I don't know. I don't wanna start a tangent about Instagram, but I kinda liked it a little bit more back then. But yeah, so I just showed up and I was there. I did joined Facebook groups, that was something else that was recommended in that time for growing. But yeah, it was just kind of a, I just showed up and I did what I wanted to do, which maybe isn't always what people recommend, but I think when you're authentic to yourself, it comes across on social media. So I posted photos of myself and was authentic and shared things about me. And I posted a lot of my work and obviously I'm an aesthetic person and I'm obsessed with aesthetically pleasing stuff to the point where it's a little crippling. And you know, and I just wanted to show pretty things and show things that I was passionate about and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, I can't take all the credit for my success. But either way, I just, I just showed up.
And I was me and I was Hannah Robinson design at the time that because I, you know, I was like, just go with your name if you don't know what to do. And then since then, as we both know, my business has transformed and changed quite dramatic, dramatically and drastically. I just made a word, dramatically. But yeah, I think that did I cover the question? Okay.
RuthAnn
Yeah, totally. So when you were really growing a lot with Hannah Robinson designs, like how did it morph into Oakland Studio? Cause that came a little bit later. I think that was the next evolution, I think. And so, and I don't wanna get ahead of myself. So was that the next step was Oakland?
Hannah
Hmm.
Yeah. So I was doing Hannah Robinson and I was successful honestly because at the time I was in Houston and a lot of the success was coming from that there was a very tight-knit community of creatives there and so if you kind of got to know some of them you ended up kind of getting to know all of them and that's I made a lot of business just by being in that group and knowing a lot of those creatives and so there's something about me and my family and my life is that I have always wanted to move out of Texas. I love my all of my families in Texas and I love them to death and I wish I was there with them, but Texas itself was kind of stifling for me and suffocating. I get rejuvenated in nature. I get creative. All my creativity comes from nature and being out in the elements. And Texas, specifically Houston, not all of Texas, but Houston was a concrete jungle. And so For the longest time, I always wanted to move. And my husband and I wanted to, kind of had set our sights on Colorado. And so when Oakland was kind of happening, my husband actually did, he doesn't anymore, but he did web development, web design for a corporate company. So he was the, like, the guy making the code behind the designs. And I was like, hey, why don't we just, like, if we can't find a job, like, why don't we just do this thing together? And, and, you know, like you, you have the coding brain and I have the design brain and together we can make awesome things, right? Um, scarier in real life than just imagining, but yeah, so we took that leap. We were like, all right, let's just do it. Like just quit your job. If, if that's what we have to do, let's move and we'll live the crazy life of being both entrepreneurs. We'll figure out all the insurance stuff later.
Um, and so that was the goal, but praise God, that's not exactly what happened because he ended up going to his company and saying, hey, we want to move. And if, you know, and I need to quit because, you know, back then this was pre-COVID, this was pre working from home when a lot of companies still were like, no, you have to be in office. Um, and thankfully his supervisor, great guy was like, no, we don't want to lose you like just stay on and we'll do remote for you. And so that's what happened. And he did help me actually, we still did Oakland together for about a year and then it was just too much for him. And honestly, working with your spouse isn't for everybody. And it wasn't for us, cause I'm one of those people that's like, I have to get it done immediately. Like if I have a project, I have to work on it then and there. I can't put it off because I have time. I don't work like that. And he's kind of like, oh, I have time. This isn't due until like next week. And I'm like, no, it's due now. So anyway, fun stuff. But yeah, and that's kind of how Oakland happened. But then I fired him and he got kicked out and then it was just me again. So that's how that worked.
RuthAnn
And so were you still, well, props to you for giving it a go, because I don't even think I would enter into that. I've definitely talked to Fawad about doing entrepreneurship, but in my mind I'm like, if we work together, I don't know. That would be great for us. But I don't know.
Hannah
Yeah, never start a business with family. That is my advice. Just don't do it. Yeah, yeah, no, I tease.
RuthAnn
I feel like you don't know until you try, but I feel like it might not be the best for your marriage perhaps. So as you were going along in Oakland, were you still seeing a lot of success? Were things going fine? What happened to change that?
Hannah
Yeah.
Yeah, no, it was still going well. We had quite a few projects as Oakland together and then after Oakland as just myself. And then I think around that time was honestly right when COVID kind of came into the picture in 2020, the year that we all wanna forget. That whole thing kind of came in and honestly it hit my business really, really hard.
And I know part of it, I want to blame everything on the pandemic in that time period, but I know part of it was me, myself and my lack of advertising or lack of marketing skill and desire. But that did kind of start the spiraling of that whole drop. And you know, if all of us business owners are being honest, like we're not successful all the time. There's going to be years where we fail and where we don't hit our goals and that kind of was that year. And then honestly, I kind of think I hit a block mentally as well because it was such a hard hit and I was like, oh, everything that I did do for the past five years or however long it had been, four years, isn't working anymore. Do I just suck? Like, is what I'm offering not good enough anymore because let's be honest, after that whole pandemic, so many people came onto the online world and started doing business way more than before. Everybody was like, hey, I can do this thing now and I don't want to get out and hey, let's try it. And specifically designers, brand designers blew up. I started seeing so many and let's be honest, they were talented. Like there was so many talented designers and you know how we all look at our own and we're like, oh, I suck. I don't compare to this person. That's just that's just how we are. And so it was like that coupled with like the lack of business, coupled with just like my creative wall that I had hit kind of had started the spur of like down the spiral down, I guess, for my business and myself.
RuthAnn
Well, I definitely think the pandemic did a lot of different things to different businesses. For some people, it blew up their business and they really found a lot of success during that time. I was in the same boat as you. I had a really rough time that year. That was also the year my son was born and it was just, I had so much on my mind and marketing is something we have in common. We don't really love to do, but it's something you kind of have to do to get your business
Hannah
Mm-hmm.
RuthAnn
I just had a really hard time, like marketing, closing sales. I just lost a lot of confidence in myself and as a business owner and as a designer. And I, yeah.
Hannah
Yeah, and when you, sorry, but like I was just gonna say, when you lose that confidence, you do get depressed. You get down and that flows over into what you do and it's hard to motivate yourself to go out there and be marketing and be excited about branding in your business when you feel, you know, kind of crappy, to be frank.
RuthAnn
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think, you know, some people, the path forward, which is what I did, is you kind of, you know, put your head down, you just keep going. For me, I hired support, I had a coach and stuff, and I just kept going, and I didn't really, I guess I did have those feelings of burnout, but I just kind of like pushed them off to the side. Like I can get through this like,
Don't be a baby, like that kind of thing. Like I just had the grit your teeth and bear it mentality and just kind of kept going. And that's where you kind of took a different route though. You were struggling with burnout and just a lot of different things. And what happened next?
Hannah
I mean, that's amazing.
Hannah
Well, yeah, so I was experiencing severe burnout. And when you go through that, which I'm sure a lot of business owners do, you start questioning everything. And you start thinking, am I supposed to be doing this? Is this my quote unquote calling? Which I could go on a tangent about that. And it kind of had crippled me. And when I get that way, I wish I had that personality that you have where you just like, you just become a warrior and you put on your armor and you just go through it. Like you're, you're as amazing. Like I, it's so awesome. I wish I was like that, but instead I turned into a hermit and I crawl into my little shell and I feel sorry for myself, which is not the best personality to have, especially as a business owner or in general in life. Um, so there was a lot of experimentation, a lot of trying new things because I thought, well, if I'm burned out of design, like should I keep doing it? And I had a lot of, um, struggle with that because I felt blessed with my business and to have my business I was very thankful for it so I felt kind of like it was spitting in the face of that to be like oh well I don't want to do it anymore I'm just gonna throw it in the trash. So that was a whole other struggle that I had to go through was like how do I decide what to do with my business should I just ditch it because I don't feel like doing it anymore? Well no because feelings change and So anyway, so that evolution kind of happened and I started finding my creativity rejuvenated through things outside of design and outside of what I did as a business. And took many forms. I feel like I'm about to sneeze. My nose is tickling me. It's cold here. Yeah, you understand, you're frozen too. Anyway. Okay.
RuthAnn
Oh, it's cold here too.
It's true.
Hannah
I think we're good. Anyway, and we start over. So I started trying to find my creativity through other outlets besides design. And I honestly, and because I'm a creative, it just, I can do, and I almost find it a curse, but it's really not. I can do almost anything if I set my mind to it, if it's creative. Like I...
RuthAnn
You absolutely can. I can attest to that. Anything you would do, I just felt like you were so good at it. Like, okay, so you did videography for a while and you were so, oh my gosh, I just felt like your videos were incredible. They were so good. I was like, wow, everything she does is like so good. And then you did jewelry making for a while. That was also very beautiful. And what else did you do? Am I missing something?
Hannah
Oh, I did. Yes, I did.
Hannah
Thank you.
Yes, that's what I was gonna say. I had the opportunity, I did a mentorship with Ali Vidal, which she is a creative goddess. Anyway, but she really inspired me for video because I think, you know, as a kid, I had always messed with things like, this is kind of hilarious, but back when I was in school, like we had PowerPoint and like Microsoft Paint.
That's all I had to like creative outlet on the computer. And I remember making these like animations in PowerPoint, okay? Like make and adding music to it and like animate. This is PowerPoint. But that's like, I knew, I should have known honestly that my passion was going to come in that form. But you know, then your parents are like, go get a job that makes money and then that throws everything for a loop.
RuthAnn
Yep.
It's so funny.
Hannah
Anyway, but yeah, so I had kind of fallen in love with her videos and I had always kind of loved videos and pictures. I had done portrait photography actually as a job when I was a teenager. And I thought I was gonna get into photography, but the whole like dealing with people thing was really hard for me because I was introverted on a whole nother level when I was a teenager. It was much different. And anyway, so yeah, that didn't really work. I didn't have that.
personality to bring out the comfort or the joy in people when I was taking pictures. I was definitely more on the artistic side or the dramatic side. I was on deviant art. This is really showing my age. And like Laura Jade, who's now this amazing, like I think she's UK fashion editorial photographer. She was on there and she had all of her moody like emo stuff and I was all for it back then.
Anyway, so like my creativity just kind of went everywhere. I did photography, my poor family and friends, I would make them do creative nonsense when I was a teenager. And if they saw those photos now, it would be considered blackmail. And it morphed that way. And then so when I got older, I was like, oh, video is so amazing. Like to be able to bring emotion out and make people feel things just through moving images. I fell in love with that concept. So I did the mentorship, loved Ali, she was wonderful. And then...
Like I came home and it's just like my passion and creativity exploded through video. And I was like, how can I bring this into my business? I can do brand films. And then, you know, but then that gets scary because that's in person and it's not over the internet. It's just what I'm better at. And it, you know, the joys of being an introvert and having a tiny bit of social anxiety, but yes. So I fell in love with video and I really, really enjoyed it.
And it was a creative outlet for me, but it wasn't something that I felt like I could make a business from. And that was just, you know, through my own personality and lifestyle at the time. And then we ended up moving, you know, to Colorado and to a small town where your resources are much more limited for something like that. And then I just kind of realized like, okay, this isn't gonna be a business for me. It's just gonna be a hobby, as all my other mini creative hobbies.
Hannah
But yeah, so that kind of just went back to the back burner, but it stayed as kind of creative fodder for me where I could kind of go back into it and use it as fuel. And then, yes, and so at that time, I was going through like the business depression and stuff like that. And so I started trying to do another creative thing, which kind of just started out as I saw these really pretty beaded fringe earrings that hung on the internet and they were like a hundred and something dollars and I was like, Oh, I could make that says every creative ever. And yeah, and so I did. I decided to just buy the stuff and make my own earrings. And then I was like, Oh, maybe I can make this a business. And you know, it's endless. But I found joy and creativity in designing these kinds of beaded earrings.
RuthAnn
So true.
Hannah
And had a lot of fun with it. And once again, I realized, okay, I'm not gonna make a business from this. It's gonna stay a hobby. And then it continued to morph. And at the whole time, you know, I was still doing design work, but I was realizing that the same kind of joy, I like, I enjoyed it because I enjoyed working with people. But what was happening was the burnout was not making me excited for like the process. And...
if you don't feel excited and if you are struggling that much, it's gonna pour out into what you create. And I just never felt satisfied with anything I created. And of course, my clients were satisfied. I always wanted them to be satisfied, but I didn't feel that satisfaction. And I felt like I was kind of falling short of the expectations and how I wanted to deliver things to my clients. And I didn't want my business to continue. And I didn't want to get to the point where I was delivering things that...
weren't what they could have been or should have been. And that's kind of when I decided that maybe it was best to kind of step back a little bit from the hands-on design process at that point. So I kind of actually moved over into templates. And if I'm talking too much and you want to intersect, just raise your hand and I'll stop off. Cause I can kind of just keep rambling because my journey has just kind of morphed and morphed over and over again, that it is a long story. But I went into, I decided I was going to try template making because I had some creative friends that I had known kind of. Yes, yes, sorry. And brand templates too. Because I thought there's so many businesses out there that don't have the funds for hiring me like full force, which I understand completely. And so I thought maybe I could do the whole template thing and provide them with something that's pretty at the beginning where they get started. And then as they come to know who they are through their business, they can rebrand then and like get something that's more them. And I started that and honestly, I did like it at first because I could kind of just do whatever the heck I wanted, but you can't always do with clients because you need to design for your client. And in this case, I got to design for myself. So I was like, oh, I could do everything and everything.
RuthAnn
Mm-hmm.
Hannah (27:56.066)
So I did kind of go down the template rabbit hole and then the comparison trap came into effect again. And I felt like my templates weren't good enough. And I looked at all the other beautiful templates out there that were priced, you know, very affordably. And I just thought, are mine really needed in the world? It was a sad moment. And I know that so many of us struggle with that. They go, am I needed in the world? And since then,
I've had some revelations that have helped combat that comparison thief and the stealer of joy Because that's all comparison does is steal your joy and it takes away It takes away your joy from what you're doing and since then I've realized that we are each Individuals we are our own person. We each have a different way and are a different outlook and That individuality is gonna come through whatever you do
RuthAnn
So true.
Hannah
Whether you feel like it's enough or not. It is enough. Maybe you don't think so right now at this moment, but it is enough and it is important. And so I would probably encourage my old self and for anybody else going through that whole comparison trap right now is to A, get off the Instagram, the internet, whatever it is that's suffocating you and take time to just.
enjoy the work of your hands and realize that it is amazing that you can even do what you're doing. And for people who aren't creative and maybe they do something like, you know, something that's not using your quote unquote hands. But the fact that we can even do these kinds of things and work and have this freedom is just so amazing and I'm so thankful for it. So I had to kind of come out of that crippling mindset, but at the time it did cripple me.
And once again, I dove into something else because I thought, well, if I'm not getting my satisfaction through these templates creative wise, maybe I'll just try something else because it worked before. And yeah, so then I actually started getting into bookmaking, which was a whole nother direction.
RuthAnn
Which is where you are now, in a way. Yes? Okay. Yes.
Hannah
Yeah, yeah. You see the question mark? Because I'm constantly changing. It's like, is this where you are now? Question mark. Yeah, so I got into book binding, bookmaking. And I, for people who don't really know what that means, it means literally creating a book from scratch, which I knew this was a thing, but I didn't really know it was a thing until I saw videos of people doing it. And then I was just mind blown.
Because once again, it's that I think it's the same thing with video. It's like creating something from absolutely nothing and then making it a usable element for someone to enjoy. Yeah, it kind of blew my mind for a little bit. And so I started getting into bookmaking and I made sketchbooks and journals. And obviously, I'm still kind of in that learning and growing stage, which I think we're always in constantly. But yeah, and so I started with bookbinding and then
I thought maybe I could do something with this. Like maybe I actually can too. And I can combine my design skills that, you know, I've had for the past however many years now and kind of transition that into, and then also the joy of being a brand designer is you know everything about branding. And then you're like, hey, I can brand my own business, my own business that isn't a branding business.
Which is very exciting for me because I still had that excitement for like it's so exciting with someone starting a business You're getting to help them like understand who they are and how have them display it visually But anyway, um, so yes, so that is where I am right now I started making books and then I also started kind of making like little journals that I just stitched together And then recently I started making like spiral notebooks and so the other spiral notebooks And it just kind of morphed into notepads and stickers like went way off the walls because I realized all the fun things that I could do. But I'm having to act.
RuthAnn
And it's all your designs too, like all of your artwork.
Hannah
Right, Right.
RuthAnn
Which I think is the most beautiful thing, because it's such, I mean, a stationary company, there's endless things you can do, design-wise and art-wise, so I feel like it's like the perfect fit for you. Not saying you have to stay here, but like, I just think it's such a good fit for your skills.
Hannah
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I think I should. Yeah, and if I'm being totally honest, I have used AI art, which don't stone me, please other creatives. But what I've realized over the years of my creative life is that I am such a perfectionist, the standards for myself are so high that I cripple myself. And when I realized that AI art, which is never complete, it's never perfect, like, I'm never going to just take a piece of AI art and be like, yeah, yeah.
But what it helped me do was kind of see the creative things that I could do and helped guide me to where I wasn't such a perfectionist on my own self. Because I felt like I had, that I was taking somebody's bad design and making it like 20 times better is what it kind of felt like. And then it helped me not be such, so critical on my own designs. So I do want to be upfront about that. Like I'm not just sitting there which I have, like all of my branding stuff, I never used AI. I do want to say that upfront. I would never use AI for like a client and like just have them make a logo for them. That's very, that's not what branding is. So I do want to just say that straight out. But anyway, so yes, so I do get like ideas and inspiration. It's kind of like when you scroll through Pinterest and you get ideas and inspirations for like whatever, I use AI art for that to get inspiration and to get ideas. And then I create art that goes with like my brand and then I don't have to worry about stealing somebody's design on Pinterest, which is really nice.
RuthAnn
That is true. I feel like you've always been trailblazing in, just in general. Every time we would connect or something, I remember back when we were doing, you were really focusing on SEO for your templates and you were using AI. This was back when I heard I was not hearing anyone talk about AI at all. And now everyone talks about it. Like it's just a topic that everyone talks about. And I just remember when we were talking about it, he was like, oh yeah, it just writes the post for you and you have to go in and fix it up and everything. And I was like, what on earth is happening? Someone else can write this for you? It was just so funny, because you were always a step ahead, I felt like, on the trends and stuff. And even with AI, I didn't honestly know about that. I mean, of course, I'm sure it's out there, but yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing. But I think it's cool how you always are looking to the next thing
Hannah
I know.
Hannah
Yeah.
RuthAnn
your advantage in a way that really can help you.
Hannah
Yeah, and I think the key for AI is to not allow it to take away the personal touch of humans and humanity. Because at the end of the day, it's like it's such a good resource, but it shouldn't be the source. And so for like, I hate writing blog posts. I hated it with my business. And I mean, I know that I was sharing the only thing that kept me going was the fact that I was sharing info that could help.
RuthAnn
Mm-hmm.
Hannah
another business owner and that's what kept me writing these blog posts. Um, but then yeah, AI kind of came into the picture and they're like, Oh, it writes blog posts for you. And I was like, what? This is amazing. Um, so yeah, I definitely am on, um, the chairblazer when it comes to making my life easier, when it comes to marketing and things that I don't necessarily like. But the other thing was, is that I was kind of upset with.
Can I like say Adobe on this podcast or are they gonna come sue me? Are they gonna come sue me?
RuthAnn
I was actually gonna bring that up. I was gonna bring that up. This is another thing that you totally like blew my mind with, because this is just something we all do. Okay, so what we're talking about is Creative Cloud, which every single designer has. I'm sure you have Photoshop, you have Illustrator, you have InDesign, all these things. And in one of our conversations, you take it away.
Hannah
Okay, I said I quit. I was a little angry with Adobe because they're kind of leading the market with that. They have been the only platform that you could really use as a designer for a long time and they bought out other platforms. They wanted to be king and when everything happened with COVID and the pandemic and stuff like that, obviously, I didn't get any business for that year.
RuthAnn
Right.
Hannah
but Adobe still took $60 out of my bank account every month for Creative Cloud, which, you know, they're a business. I get it, but what I found so funny is other businesses, even smaller than Adobe, were like, hey, even the IRS was like, hey, we know this has been a hard year for you. Let us know how bad it's been, and we will offer you aid or whatever. Well, crickets from Adobe, because they're not gonna ask you if they can give money back to you. When I was like, I can't afford to just throw away money month by month and on a program that I'm not even using and that's not helping my business. And like I said, I was a little bitter. So anyway, and so I started doing research and I said, there's gotta be somebody out there that's trying to make something that competes with them. There has to be, because they're leading the industry and they can't always be on top. There has to be competition. So I started looking and I did find something. And I said, well, let's give it a shot. Why not a better time than right now when my business is really slow and I have time to learn this new program? And so I unsubscribed from Adobe Creative Clown and I moved over to Affinity. It's called, I think their actual business name is not called Affinity, but the program is called Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo. And they have Affinity, oh, what's the other one? I can't remember the other one.
The other one is like the InDesign version, basically. So they have like the programs, like the photo is kind of like a Photoshop, you know, whatnot, and designer is kind of like your illustrator. I don't want to say knockoff, but you know. But yeah, so I moved over to those. And it was very similar, but it was still a learning curve. And there are still things that, you know, like, let's be honest, Photoshop is so robust and Illustrator is so robust, you know.
A new company I'm becoming is not going to be able to have the same amount of features as they. I mean, they've been around forever. Adobe should be better right now. But yeah, so I found this company and it's a flat fee. No subscribing. You just charge a flat fee. You have your programs. And I was like, yes, please sign me up. So I moved over and I've honestly enjoyed them. I'm able to do everything that I need to do.
And that was when I was still doing design. So I was able to do my design business. I'm able now to do the stationary business and yeah, my cat's meowing.
RuthAnn
you when you told me that I was just like what I was like mind-blown because I was like there's no way you can do design without Creative Cloud and you're like oh there's a way I found a way I was like well show me some of the designs like is it does it look and it's pretty on par like I mean your designs still look stunning so I you can't tell I mean you can't tell the difference and so it's just like how you create it you know
Hannah
Yeah, well, at the end of the day, the programs you use are not how you design. They're just a tool. There we go. That's the word I'm looking for. They're just the tool. So my designs are coming from me and I'm using a tool to make them digital. And so I just changed what that tool was.
RuthAnn
Mm hmm. Yeah.
I just thought it was the coolest thing and something that I had never heard from another designer say this. And I was just like, wow, talk about breaking the rules and just doing your own thing, finding out something that works for you that if you're not aligned with something that's happening, you just find something else that is more aligned with your values and stuff. And I remember even when we were talking one time and I was thinking about getting a laptop and I was like, oh, what's your like what laptop are you using? You're like, oh, actually Nolan made mine, so I don't really have like Mac or anything anymore. And I was like, what? It's just so funny. I just feel like you are so, you know, you don't mind like doing new things. You don't mind trying new things. And for me, I feel like my comfort zone is familiarity with like so many people. And like, how do you find that just...
Hannah
Thank you.
RuthAnn
I think willingness to try something new and to like not do what you've always done before. You know, you've started multiple businesses. Like how do you, how are you okay with starting over, I guess.
Hannah
Oh, um, well, you know, I think it kind of comes down to my root beliefs and we're never promised tomorrow. And when I kind of step back and think about that, I realize why, why just stick doing what I'm doing if I'm not if I'm not happier if I'm not thriving or if I'm not enjoying this like we are so blessed and that we are our humans capable of change, you know, not like
let's be honest, animals really don't change. Like a beaver is always a beaver and it always makes dams in the river. But we can change and we can morph and do anything. And so I guess when I think about those things, that's kind of what just allows me to go for it. And failure doesn't really scare me as much anymore now that I've kind of already dove into the fire of owning your own business, because you can always pivot.
You can always morph, you can always do what makes sense for you in that moment and grow organically and naturally instead of forcing yourself. I honestly, my personality is kind of a self-reliant, which isn't the best thing. I will say it is, there are some shortcomings with that. But in doing the, I guess the positive is it is I just kind of go for it and I learn along the way. I don't necessarily rely on other people to show me the way, I just kind of.
go for it. But that can be crippling because then it's like it takes longer for me to necessarily see success if I hadn't just found a mentor and just done what they told me to do. But I think there is something that's kind of a beautiful form of growth and learning and doing it yourself that you wouldn't get if you just followed what you know Sam or Susie told you to do.
RuthAnn
And that's something I've definitely learned from you is like, you can trust yourself and you can figure it out and you don't have to be afraid of failure. And that's something that you've always inspired me to do is like, okay, how can I think about this differently? Like what would Hannah do in this situation? It's just.
Hannah
WWHD! No, no, no. Please no.
RuthAnn
It's just like so good to hear and know of someone who's really doing it their own way, who's not afraid to do it their own way and is finding your happiness doing it that way. Like, you know, you're not doing something that you really hate. Like, I just feel like you wouldn't be, you would not be there very long. And so if someone is very unhappy with something that they're doing or something is not working out the way they want it to, or maybe they're going through burnout, would you say to them if they're going through that?
Hannah
Oh man, well first off, not everybody has my personality. And I know that a lot of people, like you, like we have a different personality when it comes to work. Like you buckle down and you do what you need to do, which is commendable. And I hide, which is not so much commendable. But one thing that I've learned in this process is that if you are having burnout is to forgive yourself. Like it's normal.
And I think a lot of people kind of condone it and they're like, oh, if you're having burnout, that means you're unhappy and you should just stop. And I went through that mental struggle, but I think it's normal because we're human. Like we're gonna go through phases and it could be your life situations that are kind of moving over into your business. It could just be like personal. It could just be business. Whatever's causing you to have this burnout, first off, forgive yourself because it's normal and give yourself some grace and some understanding that you'll get through this, you will.
And the timing is different for everybody. Mine was much longer than some people's burnout. And so first off, forgiveness and grace, step one. Step two is look for something else to kind of fuel that passion again. And for us creatives, it tends to be other creative things. And also, I think when you start working with your hands, it kind of frees up your brain.
And so if you're having a lot of like, you just can't think straight or you can't get ideas and maybe you're a writer and just like all your ideas are crap or whatever the situation is, one thing I've learned is to be physical, to go out on a hike or a walk or a jog or whatever and just go out. I personally love being surrounded in nature. But if you don't have that option, you can also go into the city, whatever fuels you. But get that fuel and just allow yourself.
for your brain to kind of unwind and think. So that would be my other suggestion for helping with burnout. And for fellow creatives, I would say dive into something completely different than what you do for a business. Allow yourself a hobby that is not on the computer if you're on the computer all day. Give yourself something physical to do with your hands or whatnot. Because you find your passion again that way, you find your creativity and you kind of find your confidence again when you're succeeding in something that's a little different. And then, you know, you can go back to it and be like, okay, I've got this. Like if I can do this and like do it well and be happy with it, then I can definitely do what I've been doing for the past five to 10 years or whatnot.
RuthAnn
So true. Such good advice. And I feel like we could talk forever about so many different topics. So I think we are going to wrap this up for now. But thank you so much for just being so open and sharing your story and struggles that you've been through. And please tell us where everyone can find your beautiful work and what you're doing now.
Hannah
Yeah.
Hannah
time to pitch. Yes. So things have morphed. I don't think we actually went into the whole thing. But yeah, since I'm doing book finding stationary, and my business is still in the beginning stages. So I am still kind of figuring out everything that I want to do. But you can find me and my work right now on wisteria works, like the tree wisteria, wisteria works.com. My Instagram is also wisteria works. And that's just kind of
RuthAnn
Hahaha!
Hannah
you know, where I am right now. And you can come along and watch me grow and continue to dive and go in different directions. You can join me for the roller coaster if you feel like.
RuthAnn
Oh, it's a fun roller coaster to be on. And I just feel like your designs, and now that you're showing more of the videos on Instagram of how you do it, it's so cool to watch. And I just love seeing your creativity come to life and you doing something that really, I feel like, is such a good fit. And I'm so excited for this new venture. And just to see what's to come for the future.
Hannah
Thank you. Well, I think I finally figured out how I can take all the billions of creative things that I love to do and kind of bring them all into one channel. So I'm very excited about that and where it's gonna go.
RuthAnn
I love it. Thank you so much for being here and everyone you have to go check her out and thank you so much.
Hannah
Yeah, no, I'm so happy to be here and I love this podcast and I love what you're doing. So if I can support you in any way, I'm excited about that.
RuthAnn
Thank you so much, my friend. See you all next week.
