Make Your Copy Magnetic with Megan Smyth

About the episode:

I am so excited to be joined by my friend and copywriter Megan Smith today. She is a conversion copywriter, podcast host of the Blaze podcast, and she has so many phenomenal tips to share with you when it comes to standing out online with your copy. We talk about everything from breaking free from other people’s versions of success to truly define what success and fulfillment looks like for you, to brand messaging, to how the right copy can transform your brand and attract higher quality clients and more! Megan shares so many insightful ways to infuse your voice into your brand. No matter where you are in your entrepreneurial journey you can benefit from this episode!

What you’ll hear:

• Megan’s Eat Pray Love journey to entrepreneurship

• The difference between brand messaging vs copywriting - and when is the right time to focus on each?

• The market research Megan dives into for her clients to create converting copy

• How owning your expertise gets you out of competing in the industry - taking you from the best option, to the ONLY option

• The shift in your messaging to go from talking to new business owners to premium clients

• How to spice up your calls to action to make it unique to your brand voice

• Megan’s rebranding journey and how it’s played a role in embracing her unique position and signing aligned clients

Episode resources:

• Megan Smyth website - download the Conversion Cheat Sheet

• Megan on Instagram

• Listen to the Blaze Podcast

• Click here to read a raw transcript of this episode

  RuthAnn (00:00.694)

  Hey guys, welcome back. I am so excited to be joined by Megan Smith today. She is my guest copywriter, and she just has so many phenomenal tips to share with you. And so I'm so excited for you to meet her. And so let me dive right in. Megan Smith is a copywriter and consultant for Trailblazing Entrepreneurs. After realizing three years into her pre-med degree that she was chasing someone else's idea of success, she decided to take the leap and start her own business.

  one that combined her lifelong passion for writing with the science of sales psychology. Now she helps purpose-driven founders distill their vision into a powerful message uniquely crafted with equal parts art and science. I love that so much. Megan, welcome.

  Megan (00:46.528)

  Thank you so much for having me, Ruthann. I'm so excited for this conversation.

  RuthAnn (00:51.202)

  I am too. I feel like we can talk about a lot of things, but before we dive into everything, copywriting, rebranding, and all that stuff, tell me about this medical school. You know, you were in med school and how you started your own business. And some of us have listened to your podcast, so we know your story, but I'm excited for you to share it with everyone else, because I feel like it's so relatable.

  Megan (01:14.302)

  Yeah, so I was pre-med. I didn't actually make it all the way to med school, but that was the plan. I was on sort of this fast track program where a lot of people applied just after three years of undergrad to go on early admission to med school. So that was my original plan. And I had always loved writing. That was always something I was passionate about. I was like definitely a creative kid and always had my nose buried in a book. But like a lot of people, I grew up thinking the arts weren't really like a valid career choice.

  You know, I was always told like writers don't make any money. So I never even considered that as a career option. It wasn't even like on my mind, was not even in the realm of possibility. I did always love science as well. So that's why medicine seemed like a good fit. So yeah, I went to school. I really enjoyed some of my classes. Other ones, not so much. Organic chemistry for one. I, it only took me a couple of weeks of chemistry lectures to be like, ooh, maybe I have not made.

  right decision here. So yeah, after a couple years of that I was really feeling kind of uneasy in that decision and it was in my third year of university when I was getting ready to write the MCAT, the med school admissions tests, and all my friends were getting ready to write it at the same time and I really just didn't want to give up my summer, which is what most people did to write this test. So instead at the last minute, instead of writing the exam, I decided to book a plane ticket to

  I just, I left the country. I was, deleted all social media just off the grid. And I backpacked around Southeast Asia for three months, did some soul searching, went to Bali, did the whole thing. And on that trip, I realized like, I did not wanna go back to a quote unquote, regular conventional life. I think medicine is a great career if that's what you're passionate about, but I knew I didn't feel that passion and I had to find something that really lit me up and was gonna give me that freedom because.

  I'd always loved traveling and I wanted to keep traveling and exploring the world and in new cultures and meeting new people and going on adventures. So yeah, for me that came back to writing and that was sort of how I found my way into copywriting.

  RuthAnn (03:19.038)

  Okay, your story is such an eat, pray, love type of story. It seems like that romantic, like, okay, I'm leaving everything. I'm gonna like find myself in a way. I love that so much. And I love that you're like a traveler at heart. And the thing is you saw that it wasn't working for you, that something needed to shift. And so you gave yourself that time and space to find out what that was. And so many people just like push forward and just go into a career that maybe they don't love.

  Megan (03:23.163)

  A little bit.

  Megan (03:45.526)

  Yeah.

  RuthAnn (03:46.602)

  And so I love that you had that self-awareness of like, I can't do this for the rest of my life. And you decided, which I think is almost the harder thing, becoming an entrepreneur, it's so unstable in a way. Like there's so many different challenges that normal people who go to a typical day job just don't experience. And so I feel like you did the brave thing and going out on your own. So your story is so cool though.

  Megan (04:10.954)

  Yeah. Well, thank you. You know, to be clear to anyone listening though, it was not an easy decision or something I took lightly by any means. Like, it took me years to get to that point where I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm just going to go for it. Like, it was not an overnight thing. It took a lot of working up to it. And I did finish my degree. I didn't totally bail. I just bailed on what came after. And yeah, it took a long time, though. It was a lot of, you know, struggle and doubt in that process. But now I'm so glad that I did make that choice. And yeah, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

  RuthAnn (04:39.818)

  Yeah. So good. And I have not a similar backstory and I don't think I've ever shared this before, but I started college as a nursing major and I was in all of the science classes and everything that you need to go to become a nurse. That was my original plan, because I also was like, there's no way I can make money being artistic and creative, which is my natural tendency. And so I had like a similar thing where I was in.

  I honestly don't even remember what the class was, but I was sitting in class and I was like, oh, nope, I can't do this. I wanna help people and I wanna serve people, but there's gotta be a better way than doing something that I really don't enjoy. And so, yeah.

  Megan (05:21.202)

  Yeah, yeah, I never knew that about you. I'm so glad that you found your way that we both found our way back to that creativity and it is a way to serve people like you said.

  RuthAnn (05:26.891)

  Yes.

  RuthAnn (05:30.926)

  Totally, and I think people, I know I thought the only way to be of service and to help people was through a medical career. I don't know, I just had a very narrow way of thinking about it, and now, after so much personal development, I've realized that what I'm doing is serving people and helping people in transforming their business and ultimately their life and stuff. So, yeah, it's definitely cool knowing.

  Megan (05:39.262)

  Mm-hmm.

  RuthAnn (05:57.49)

  what you're doing as an entrepreneur and anyone listening, what you're doing is making a difference and it is changing the world in a very, in a smaller way, but I think it's just as important.

  Megan (06:07.978)

  Absolutely.

  RuthAnn (06:09.698)

  And I just want to say for anyone listening and hearing my little baby, Sophia is joining us. She's happy as a clam over there, but she is pretty vocal. So I might have to, um, we'll see if she makes an appearance on the show, but yes, Sophia is here with us today. She really does. She really does. Um, so let's go into copywriting and brand messaging.

  Megan (06:26.738)

  She wants to have her moment in the spotlight.

  RuthAnn (06:35.198)

  I would love to hear what the difference is between copywriting and brand messaging. Because maybe if someone's going through a rebranding process, they're not exactly sure what the difference is or which one they might need.

  Megan (06:47.502)

  Sure, so brand messaging or like your messaging strategy is the sort of foundation. Like if you're building a house, it's that very first layer that sets the tone for everything else to come. So that's the overall, like overarching strategy for your business. Like what message are you trying to put out into the world? What do you do? Who you serve? Who do you wanna impact? And how are you going to talk about those things? So it's sort of an all encompassing strategy that overlaps everything in your business.

  Copywriting is a bit more granular. That's the specific. So you can talk about copy on your website, on blog posts, emails. So those are like the more tangible pieces of copy, but the messaging strategy comes first and that's gonna determine the direction for your copywriting.

  RuthAnn (07:33.258)

  love that. And so if people are going through, so say someone's, let's talk about the two different people, the person who's starting out their business, they would probably want to start off with that foundation, that brand messaging, and then someone who's seasoned in their business and they're going through a rebrand, would you recommend copywriting for them or also brand messaging, like going back to those foundational pieces?

  Megan (07:55.35)

  Yeah, that's a good question. I think the, like you said, the foundation needs to come first. So in terms of the person who is doing a rebrand, that really depends on how big of a rebrand project it is. And I know you talk about this a lot on your podcast, like what's the difference between a real rebrand and sort of like those natural shifts we all go through. So I would say if you didn't originally build those foundations, build out a really strong messaging strategy when you started your business.

  then you definitely need to revisit that during a rebrand because a lot of people don't and that's fair, no judgment. There's so many things. Like when you're starting a business, you've got a to-do list like 10 miles long and it just seems to grow from there. And it's overwhelming, right? And you just don't know what you don't know. And so a lot of people don't even think, when you're starting your business, they're like, well, I need to file for an LLC and...

  RuthAnn (08:31.126)

  So true.

  Megan (08:43.358)

  make a logo and find my first clients. And yes, you do need to do those things, absolutely. But messaging a lot of times is not at the forefront of people's minds. So I get people coming to me that have been in business for years and they come to me asking for copy. Like they're like, I need a new website. So I need new copy or I need a sales page for this program. But they never took the time to dig into the messaging strategy behind that copy. And like I said, that's what underpins everything.

  So a lot of times I'm like, okay, well, we're gonna slow down a little, we're gonna kind of pull back the curtain and dig deeper on the strategy side of things because without that, the copy isn't gonna be able to do its job, the design and really everything in your business comes after that initial messaging strategy.

  RuthAnn (09:25.686)

  That is so true and it's just so important that everything else stems from that foundation and same with when I go through rebranding with people, we do visit that brand strategy because it's so incredibly important and everything else derives from that. If you don't have that strategy, it's just pretty pictures which aren't going to be as effective and so yeah, same with copy it sounds like. So if people have been in business for years and years like myself...

  How often do you recommend people revisiting their brand messaging and like, you know, really tweaking it and making sure it's aligned with where they're at?

  Megan (10:04.074)

  Yeah, I say normally like, you know, between six to 12 months is sort of a good, like whenever you pause to do like a mid-year review or an end of year review, think about your messaging, revisit some of those key pieces, especially things like your website, your email funnels, if you've got like a welcome sequence or a freebie up and running. Like I was looking through my freebie funnel the other day and I was like, who wrote this? This doesn't even, you know, it no longer reflects my brand voice and where I want my brand to go. So definitely on a regular basis. That said, like,

  especially in the early-ish years of your business when things tend to shift and pivot a lot quicker, or if you are more established, but you know you've recently gone through a bit of a pivot, maybe you've gotten some clarity on your long-term vision, that's kind of a sign that maybe you wanna go back and revisit some of that.

  RuthAnn (10:52.298)

  That's so helpful and I definitely know sometimes those pieces you can kind of set it and forget it like your welcome sequence. I know for me I did my welcome and this is how we met. I have to say this is I feel like this is interesting for people. Like sometimes people are like how did you meet each other and for us you were on my email list and you reached out and pitched basically of like you know a way that you could help me with my welcome sequence.

  Megan (11:06.371)

  Yeah.

  RuthAnn (11:17.406)

  And I have to admit, it was definitely left a lot to be desired, but that's how we met. And I just think it's so useful to, yes, revisit those things and put it on your calendar. Because if you don't, then it's just like collecting dust. And it was like an older version of you that you no longer. It just isn't in line with what you're doing now. So, yeah, if you can maybe set it on your calendar so you don't forget, like every six months, every year, we're going to revisit this and make sure it's in line with where we're at.

  Megan (11:47.37)

  Yeah, I think like you said, email, it's such a good point. Most of us send our email sequences and totally forget about them. I've done it, you've done it. Like, you know, we're not immune to it. So it's out there running and we don't think about it. We don't think about the fact that like someone could be opting into your email sequence right now. And if the thought of them going through that sequence that you have currently makes you kind of cringe a little in embarrassment, like, oh, I haven't updated that a long time or that's no longer, you know, what I'm trying to put out into the world. That's probably a sign too, you know, I think it's part of it is a feeling.

  RuthAnn (11:53.574)

  Yes.

  Megan (12:16.898)

  Analytically, you can look at it and think, oh, my offers have changed, my brand has changed, whatever it is, but how does it make you feel? Are you proud of that copy? Does it feel like an accurate reflection of you and your business?

  RuthAnn (12:29.238)

  That is so true and that's so similar to your website when people are like, you know, I don't know if I need to update my website. I'm not sure. It's like, well, are you really like excited to send people to your website? And you're like pushing people like in that direction or if you're like, oh, actually just go to my Instagram. It's so much better. It's like, you know, that's a sign. That's a pretty obvious sign that maybe things need to change. So what do you recommend if people are wanting to make, you know, varying, talking more about like the copywriting side?

  Megan (12:33.598)

  Mm-hmm.

  Megan (12:46.058)

  Yeah, that's a sign.

  RuthAnn (12:59.01)

  How can people make their copy more engaging? And I do feel like design is such an integral part of having a really strong website. I feel like the visuals captivate someone, but the words keep someone. So how can you make your copy more engaging and where people wanna take action?

  Megan (13:17.686)

  Yeah, I love that. I think, you know, design and copy are two sides of the same coin. I love the way you put it, design address people in, but copy and the words on the page are going to be what gets them to stay and to hopefully convert. So the first thing I would say is to, like we talked about, start with the strategy. So a big mistake people make with websites, I don't know what it is about websites specifically. I think it's, we get overwhelmed because we have so many things in one place. It's not like an email sequence or a social media caption or an ad or a sales page where there's one clear action you want people to take.

  A lot of times on your website, you're sending them to multiple pages, different links, you've got freebies and social feeds and email opt-ins and service menus and contact forms and all the things. So the first thing I would say is to get really, really clear for each specific page of your website, what is the one action that you want people to take on that page? Like what is the goal you're driving them towards? And for pages like your homepage, you can have multiple, you can have maybe up to three, but make sure you define which one is the priority.

  So if you want your website to function as a sales tool and to convert leads for you on autopilot, then that goal needs to be to sell essentially. You know, it needs to do the selling for you. So the copy needs to do a lot of that heavy lifting and you also need to, on a granular level, have a specific action tied to that. So maybe it's filling out your contact form, maybe it's sending you an email or booking a call, but just being super clear on that action is the first step.

  And from there, in terms of making the copy more engaging, I would say to focus on the reader more than yourself. Obviously, you know, it's your website and it's about you and your business, but just bring the reader into that with you. Make it feel a bit more like a two-way conversation, even on your about page. You know, you're telling your story, but think, you know, how is the person reading this going to relate to your story? You know, what is going to be empowering or inspiring for them? What are they going to be able to see themselves in on the page?

  Just keeping those questions in mind is a really powerful way to build connection between you and the reader.

  RuthAnn (15:19.158)

  such a good, I mean, such great advice. And I think something that I see a lot when I do website reviews for people is they make the site about them and it's not inviting someone into, I just feel like that's such a common mistake is like, oh, it's about us, it's about our service, about what we can do, yes, but it's also about like, how can you help this person? How can you identify with them? So I think that is excellent advice. And I have a more specific question about calls to action.

  So many times people use like learn more, which I think is, you know, very generic and passive. Do you have any off the top of your head like more engaging calls to action to make people want to, you know, jump on a call or, you know, take that action that people want them to take?

  Megan (16:06.094)

  Oh my gosh, yes, you can see, you know, if anybody was watching the video version, they're using me cringing at the learn more. It's so, so boring. Like I think, you know, don't be afraid to spice up your call to action, especially button copy, really underrated, you know, thing you can tweak and small changes can make a huge increase in your conversions. So, you know, off the top of my head, you know, not so much specific examples. You can say like, tell me more or like, yes, give me the details or like, I want in.

  RuthAnn (16:11.95)

  I'm sorry.

  Megan (16:31.614)

  I already know I want in, you know, I like to use that one at the top of something like a sales page, like right off the bat for those action takers. You want to make it easy for them to just jump right in. They're like, nope, I'm an impulsive person and I'm going for it. And that's me, honestly, that's my buying behavior. So I do try and cater to like different, you know, buyer decision making types that people are analytical and need a bit more time. But yeah, I say put some personality into it. Like whatever, whatever makes sense to you and feels.

  authentic, but I think it's a really underrated place to show that personality, you know, throw in an exclamation point or an emoji if that's you or use like a cute catchphrase, like something that feels really authentic to you. It will stand out. If you can do anything besides the typical learn more, I think you're already like a step ahead of the game.

  RuthAnn (17:17.154)

  You are 100% right. And I've seen people be really creative with their calls to action, and I love it because I'm like, wow, that really makes me so much more interested in learning about this person or their service, but I've seen that it was like, tell me less, it was at the top of a page, it was like, tell me less, it was like, I, or yeah, say less, I was like, oh, I love this. So yeah, any ways you can bring personality into it and your own unique.

  Megan (17:33.534)

  Yeah, say less. Yeah, I love that one.

  RuthAnn (17:44.138)

  spin I feel like makes people so much more likely to engage. And okay, so.

  Megan (17:48.458)

  Yeah, I think another, yeah, oh sorry. I think another quick tip there is in terms of button copy in particular, you wanna tell people exactly what's gonna happen when they click on that button because people wanna be prepared and they hate feeling lied to. So if you're telling them something like learn more and it takes them right to a checkout page or like book a call or something, they're gonna feel like, well, that isn't what I thought was gonna happen. It just kinda sets the wrong tone.

  RuthAnn (18:05.806)

  Mmm.

  Megan (18:12.298)

  So if you can't come up with something like super spicy and creative, or that's just not you and you don't really want to, that's fair. And then, you know, I say go with a straightforward route and say, you know, you can say book a call or like grab your 20 minute slot on my calendar, like whatever it is, tell them exactly what's gonna happen just so they feel prepared and they feel like they can trust you right off the bat.

  RuthAnn (18:32.47)

  Oh, that's so good. That is so good because I think, yeah, building that trust is so important and if you're not building that in the beginning, then I think people have the chance to leave the site or whatnot. So I think that's such good advice. So as you are going through brand messaging, you do market research. I would love to know what market research you believe is really critical when you're working with someone on their brand messaging.

  Megan (19:02.83)

  Sure, so when I work with clients, there's sort of three main areas I look at. The first is their brand itself and them as the business owner. So that's really like their voice, their story, their personality. I'm digging into, you know, how do they speak, what things are important to them in terms of values. Cause

  that really permeates every aspect of the brand. And we want to put their best foot forward. We want it to feel authentic to them, something that, you know, when they read the final copy after working together, they're like, oh my God, I can't believe I didn't write this myself. It feels so like me, you know, in written form. That's the feeling we want. So I start there with like a deep dive into their brand and their backstory, all those things. And then the two other areas I look at are their ideal clients. So...

  that's like their both their general audience like you know social media followers, email list subscribers and also their past clients. So collecting what we call voice of customer data from people who have worked with my client in the past and you know whether that's getting on calls with them, sending surveys, looking at testimonials and trying to find like what language did these people use to talk about their problems and their pain points and also their goals and desires so that we can really like

  tailor that. And so then when those people, for example, land on my client's website, they'll think, oh, this person really gets it. She really understands.

  RuthAnn (21:05.118)

  I am so sorry, I didn't mean to leave. She was just struggling, so she's in her swing. She should be happy. Okay, I'm gonna ask you that question again if that's all right. Okay. So as you're going through brand messaging for people and you're working with your clients, you go through market research. So I would love to know what is really important critical market research to do as you're going through brain messaging.

  Megan (21:05.806)

  She okay? Oh, it's okay! Oh. Okay, yeah, no worries.

  Megan (21:31.434)

  Yeah, so the first step, there's three main areas I look at. And the first one is my client's brand. So the brand itself, who are they behind the business as the founder? And I really like to dig into their brand story, why they got started. What's the impact they want to create? What are their values and what's their voice? That one's

  really important for me because I want the copy to feel like when they when they read it over, you know, their website or their messaging, they feel like, Oh my god, I can't believe I didn't write this myself. It feels so much like me. So that's the feeling we're going for. And so I start there. And if you're doing this yourself, you know, it's valuable to get an outside perspective, but you can do it on your own, as long as you take the time to really dig deep and get intentional with, you know, those questions and clarifying, you know, your impact, your values, those sort of things. So from there, the next place I research is the

  clients target audience. So this is their general audience. It's like their social media followers and their email subscribers, but also their customers and their clients. So.

  and dig really deep into what we call voice of customer data. So that's taken directly from their past clients. And I can do that on one-on-one Zoom calls, from past testimonials, from surveys, that sort of thing. But it's learning how their audience speaks really. Like what language do they use to describe their problems and their pain points and their goals and desires and all the things because.

  That is going to make for really powerful messaging when someone lands on your website and they think, oh my gosh, this person really gets me. She really understands what I'm going through and what type of solution I'm looking for. So that's the second piece. And then the third is our competitors. And some people don't like the word competitors, but like other people in your industry, let's say. And not just like direct competitors, but I ask my clients to tell me like, who's someone you really admire in this industry? And then we go through a couple examples and we go through both like what they really love and admire.

  Megan (23:21.55)

  about what this person is doing. And also maybe what they don't love so much or just what doesn't feel true to them. So maybe they're like, well, I really love what this person is doing and how she shows up for her audience, but I don't share the same sort of brand voice. Maybe hers is really sweet and girly and you're a bit more bold and in your face or whatever it is. And you just have a different style. So we go through what feels like you, what doesn't feel like you, and then how do you wanna fit into that industry? Because we wanna position you.

  as really owning your own space and not indirect competition. Because if you get the messaging right, then you're not just like the better option for someone, you're like the only option for them. When they find you, they're like, this is the person I wanna work with. I don't wanna look at any more designers, copywriters, coaches, whatever, because they feel that connection. So that's what we're going for there.

  RuthAnn (24:10.598)

  I love that and that is such a thorough, I mean, you're getting, you know, people's values, their mission, all of those things that make up their personality and their voice and then you're getting their clients and then competitors, I feel like that is such a, you know, just completely solid strategy of like getting every piece of content you need, honestly, to like make it the most effective. I love that. That's so good.

  So I'm kind of jumping around here a little bit, but you have so many great insights on so many different things. So I just wanna make sure I hit on all of them. So if someone is looking for more high quality leads and more clients that they can attract, how can they do that with their copy?

  Megan (24:56.494)

  Oh yeah, that's a good question. I think that's a problem a lot of people struggle with is like they're attracting leads or they're building their audience, but they're not either the right fit or maybe you're getting people who slide into your DMs and are like, oh, I love what you're doing and I want to work with you, but I can't afford it. People who maybe don't have the budget yet or they're in like a DIY phase, which is fine. But if you're trying to attract those like higher ticket clients, then something needs to shift in your messaging. So I would say a common mistake I see people make is in their messaging, they're speaking to that.

  that audience that is looking to DIY. So they're saying like, I'm gonna save you time and money if you hire me. And the people who have already decided in their minds, like for example, let's use a designer, like a web designer, where then if someone like lands on your website and they are looking to DIY, then nothing in the world is gonna convince them to pay four or five figures for a higher tier package. But if someone already has decided that they're.

  looking for that and they're just looking for the right person for them, that's a very different clientele you're speaking to. And the person with a budget who's, you know, excited to work with you, who's not going to hesitate to make that investment, they have very different concerns, they have very different desires and goals. And so you want to make sure first of all, that you're speaking to the right person. So don't, you know, talk about saving time and money because they don't care so much about that. They're not price shopping.

  And it's not just about saving time. It's, you know, they want an expert. They want a partner that they can trust, someone who's gonna walk them through the process and provide like a really great client experience. These are the things that what we call, you know, higher quality or, you know, higher ticket leads. Those are the things that are most important to them.

  RuthAnn (26:32.918)

  That's so good. Yeah, looking at those motivating factors, and I feel like you would get a lot of that from your customer research. Like if you're doing interviews on past clients, you would get like what their motivation is and really hone in on those, and then really speak to those in your marketing. And it's just reminding myself, like I need to do that a little bit more, is just making sure I'm talking about those specific things that my clients are looking for, and sometimes a generic save time and money.

  Megan (26:39.424)

  Yeah.

  RuthAnn (27:00.894)

  It's just something easy that we can all grab onto, but it's like, what are they really looking for? And when clients work with me, it's that expertise. They want to be seen as an industry expert. They want direction for their team. So I think that's so good to think about those motivating factors for your ideal clients and not just, you know, generic things.

  Megan (27:07.712)

  Yeah.

  Megan (27:23.294)

  Yeah, yeah, and like you said, it'll be different for everyone. It'll be different for your audience than it will be for mine. So that's why you really do need to do the research and really get to know your audience and especially your clients. Like if you're not already collecting testimonials and, you know, having kind of close out calls with your clients, it's something I really, really recommend is like sitting down face to face. Or if you can't do that, the like voice notes or just something where you can hear in their own words, like why did they choose you?

  what made it worth it, what were their hesitations, and get them to just walk you through their buying process, really, and what was going through their mind every step of the way. That's some really valuable information that you can then turn into a great copy.

  RuthAnn (28:02.966)

  That is so good. And I just feel like that's gold. Like, you know, if you have that information and you can speak to that, you are so much more likely to gain and attract those ideal clients. And I think that's such good advice. I would love to hear from your own experience how you have evolved your business over the years, such as when it comes to niching. And yeah, just tell us a little bit about your own business journey a little bit with Copywriting.

  Megan (28:30.478)

  Oof, yeah. Let's see. My business, I'm trying to think, you know, when I started my business back in 2020, like 2021, it was sort of like the side hustle face for a while. I wasn't really calling it a business, but it's just, you know, it looks nothing, absolutely nothing like it did during that time. And I was calling myself a copywriter. Like I was always doing similar things. I started out with blog writing, so that's more content than copy.

  RuthAnn (28:31.894)

  Hahaha

  Megan (28:54.166)

  But nothing about my brand is the same, not my offers, not my niche, my visual brand, it's all changed. And it's really been a process of, like you said, off the top of this conversation, doing the personal growth and development work on myself and figuring out who am I, and how am I gonna present that to the world? How am I going to convey that?

  in my messaging and you know, visually in places like my website. So it's definitely been an evolution. It's been through several evolutions and I did have to go back to kind of, you know, ground zero that and revisit my own messaging strategy. And it took a long time. Honestly, I had to get outside help on that because it's something is so hard to do for your own business. It's and I do this for my clients like every day I help them and they're like, Oh my gosh, you know, you took the words right out of my head. This is exactly what I've been trying to say. And I couldn't.

  come up with the right words to say it. And then, of course, I try and sit down and do it for myself and I've got nothing, right? So it was a process. And I started off with a brand that was, it wasn't inauthentic to me, but it wasn't like a hundred percent who I truly am. It was just sort of like your typical online business owner, I would say. I went for like really warm and cozy colors in the branding, like softer language. And I don't wanna offend anyone, which I think is...

  something a lot of us feel when we're putting stuff out there into the world, we just want to be liked and accepted. And I definitely felt that too. And so I did what a lot of my clients do. And I kind of shrunk myself a little bit to fit into the typical online business like service provider mold. And like I said, a lot of my clients do the same. And by the time they come to me, they're like, you know what, I'm tired of that. I'm tired of shrinking myself, making myself smaller, trying to fit into a box.

  not owning like my voice and my mission and all those things. And so the next step is to really kind of break free of that and figure out who are you and what do you want to say?

  RuthAnn (30:50.03)

  100% and when people go to your website and you know download your freebies and get on your mailing list your brand is nothing like you're describing like it is definitely you know, so much more bold and smart and Decisive is like a word that comes to mind like it just feels like You know, you're planting your stake in the ground and like this is what I do I'm really good at it. You know what you're talking about. I feel like your branding is totally different than

  what you're describing. So when did you go through a rebanding process? I would love to know.

  Megan (31:21.107)

  Yeah.

  Um, yeah, it was late 2022. So I was, you know, I think a couple years into business at that point, and I knew I needed to update my brand. And it started like a lot of people think, you know, they're like, I'm just seeing a new logo, a new color palette. And it was like very surface level. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna, you know, update a few things here and there. But I did realize that the whole messaging strategy needed to change. My brand voice needed to be more true to who I am.

  And like you said, like my brand now is quite bold and confident and decisive. Visually it's a lot, I would say like darker and bolder, a lot of black and red. And that's me, like that's who I am in my real life. And that's like, you know, when I look at like my wardrobe in my closet, it's all those colors, the way I talk in real life to my friends and family, it's now the same as the way I show up online. And that not only like feels really good, but just makes your life so much easier when you're, you know, just being true to who you are. So.

  I would say it was a couple years into business before I kind of worked up to that point and made it a priority to shift that. But yeah, it's been a big change, but I have to say the reaction overall has been positive considering a big hesitation of mine was there wasn't a lot of online service providers who were kind of showcasing that brand. The example that I think of is when I was looking at other copywriters and designers and online business coaches,

  There was a lot of like, visually, a lot of people that were talking about like, you know, sipping margaritas on the beach and like sand and sun, or like drinking wine, like white wine, and it was like very like classy and I'm, that's not me, like I said to my, my brand strategist, I was like, I'm like, that's not me, I don't drink margaritas or wine, like I'm a whiskey girl, that's why I am, I just want to be like dark and stormy weather in Scotland and like, and that's me and that you can see, you know, when you go to my brand now, that's exactly.

  Megan (33:13.298)

  what it is and it doesn't bother me that there's no one else out there, you know, doing that because one of my values is to do things differently and so I feel like now I'm actually living that.

  RuthAnn (33:24.082)

  love that so much and from a branding perspective I think that is the point of branding is that you are unique and different and you stand out and it's kind of like that immediate showcase of who you are and then when people read your content they do learn about who you are but your brand is that visual representation and I love that it's so aligned now and it's so like on point to who you are. Bless you my little daughter is sneezing.

  And I'm just so glad that it is so aligned with who you are and visually it's stunning. I love your brand I think it's gorgeous and you know, you're just came out with your podcast and like the logo I just feel like it's on point and I just love that It's so you so aligned to who you are and I just think that's a way to help you stand out and a way to help you Yeah, not look like everybody else

  Megan (34:03.338)

  Thank you

  RuthAnn (34:13.702)

  And I've seen a lot of copywriters out there, and you definitely don't look like anybody else. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing because you want to stand out.

  Megan (34:21.728)

  Yeah, thank you.

  RuthAnn (34:24.27)

  So you also mentioned like it's so hard to do things for yourself and like doing your own brand messaging, your own copywriting and for me myself like doing my own website is a nightmare. Like it's just so hard to do it for yourself. It's so easy to do it for other people because you have that bird's eye view but it's just hard when it's for yourself because you're so close to it and stuff. So I totally feel you on that. So as we wrap up and people are.

  Megan (34:35.298)

  The worst.

  RuthAnn (34:52.026)

  you know, going through a rebranding process, what would you recommend to people who think they might need help with copywriting? They're not really sure. You know, maybe they have to do the whole nine yards. They have to do website redesign. Should they do copy? Like, what would you, what would be your best advice to someone thinking about going through the process?

  Megan (35:11.166)

  Yeah, I love that question. I think my advice would be to find the person you wanna work with first, or just someone that you feel like you connect with and you trust, whether it's a brand strategist, messaging strategist and copywriter like me, or, you know, I wouldn't go straight to design unless like Ruthanne, they're also an expert in rebranding and the strategy side of things. I would focus on the strategy piece first, like we've talked about, and find someone you really trust. Maybe you have a friend who works in that sphere and get that second opinion of what you need first.

  Do you need to revisit your messaging? Could you get away with just revamping the copy and maybe you already feel like you have a really strong foundation and you do just need copy and fresh design? So take the time to identify where is the best starting point for you before you start getting into, like people jump right away to design. And design is of course hugely important, but in terms of the order of the process.

  that needs to come after the copy and the strategies. So just keep that order in mind and yeah, find someone you trust who's gonna give you that outside opinion of where's the best place for you to start strategically, what do you really need, and what is gonna help you actually get to your end goal.

  RuthAnn (36:21.49)

  Such good advice. And yeah, for anyone who's going through the process, I highly recommend Megan. And this is something we are doing right now is we're working together with a client. And this is something I hope to do more. It was like bringing that copy into the rebranding process because I do believe it's so incredibly important in getting that messaging down. So hopefully you'll see more of Megan in the future with our art R Artspace

  But I would love to know where can everyone find you. You know, if someone's interested in getting their brand messaging together or, you know, copywriting and your podcast share all the things.

  Megan (36:58.086)

  Yeah, so the best place to find me is just on my website. It's m-e-g-a-n-s-m-y-t-h.com. I know there's like a million ways to spell Megan. So I always like to make it easy for people. And I'm on Instagram as well at coffee by Meg. And like RuthAnn said, I just recently launched my podcast as well. It's called Blaze as in trailblazing entrepreneurs. And it's just been such a fun little venture for me having so many incredible conversations.

  RuthAnn is on there as well, sharing her story and her expertise. So that's a great place you can come and hang out and get to know me and my audience there as well. But yeah, Instagram is a great place, website, and the podcast. If you're curious about market research in particular, I do have a great free resource on my website. It's called the Conversion Cheat Sheet. So you can find that there as well. And it's just a free download. It'll walk you through it step by step, some of the research you can do to get clear on those things, to better understand your audience, and to write better copy as well.

  RuthAnn (37:56.234)

  So good. Thank you so much for sharing that. And everyone, you definitely have to check out her podcast because it's so good and I'm just loving it. The interviews are like really in depth and very, very good. So definitely check out everything that Megan has going on. And thank you so much for being here and sharing all your insights. This was incredibly helpful, hopefully to our audience. And I just am so grateful for you being here.

  Megan (38:18.468)

  Thank you so much for having me Ruth Ann. This was a blast.

  RuthAnn (38:24.59)

  Let me stop it.

  Megan (38:25.078)

  Yay!